Helpful ReplyHot!Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars.

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Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/14 15:17:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Wannabe 2016/12/17 08:18:36
One of the reasons I am not a J bar fan:
https://jimharrisphotogra...681509/photo/480481166
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Wannabe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/14 16:15:57 (permalink)
JV,
I would like to know what it is about the Jbars, you do not like.   Looks at the pics, I would have to guess what it is that you don't like.
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Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/16 16:48:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Wannabe 2016/12/17 08:18:16
Look at my bar and that of our National UMCA 100 mile champ. We are both just over 6', and both on virtually the same geometry bikes. He may or may not have his bars below his line of sight in the middle, but he has these big hoops of tubing in his face, and creating more frontal surface area, to either side. Given that that the J-bar is a fixed length, once you have your hands in the right spot, you many or may not have enough "stem" extension to get your bars maximally low to you shins. Looking at the pics, I am really happy with my set up.    ...and so far I have seen one rider capable of keeping his hands steady on J-bars when riding hard in a straight line on smooth roads. He is very good at relaxing. All the rest have shaking hands. J-bars are not stiff. My 31/8 bars are stiff enough that I can now feel what the rest of my front end is doing, even with fatter tires at lower pressures.  
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Wannabe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/17 08:17:34 (permalink)
Thanks JV, now that you say it like that, I have to agree. I am left to my own imagination, and this forum to learn about how to extract the most out of my CA2.0. I think I have the bars on my bike set up similar to yours. I would like to post an up close picture with me on the bike and see what you think.  ( its just to find the time, my current job is work all the time, Not even time to ride :(.   But I am going to make changes.
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Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/17 15:49:26 (permalink)
Dude, get your priorities straight!! 
Looking forward to the pic. 
Last night I routed all the cables inside Kristy's new bars. Very clean.
Hopefully tomorrow I can do mine. 
With Mark Power's 31.8mm bars, they are a so strong and stiff, I did not hesitate.
 
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noahvale
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/18 08:26:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Wannabe 2016/12/18 09:04:33
delete....
post edited by noahvale - 2016/12/18 08:50:52
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Wannabe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/18 08:54:33 (permalink)
I have a quick moment so I would like to say... great pic Butch.
My bars are the original B bars. Just enough room for a cosy fit. In fact with my hand all the way around the ergon grips, my legs sometimes brush my thumbs. I don't mind. It reminds me to pay attention, wake up and realize I am in the zone, aboard one of the fastest, smoothest, coolest bents ever made. 40 to 50 miles pass by quickly with out issue. 
I tried bar ends and they got in the way. Over 6 months of trial and error, I ended up with Sram XX as shifters. Wet, dry, heat cold, gloves... no problems. Not much shifting really in these parts. Get the right gear hang in at 18 to 22, maybe a gear or 2 and its rock and roll. 
 
Will submit good pics before Xmas.  On 24 hr call until 23rd.  OMG, I have to get a less demanding job.
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Wannabe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/18 09:05:17 (permalink)
Butch, I dont understand why your post says delete ??
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noahvale
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/18 15:18:06 (permalink)
After reviewing the thread, I realized that I had already posted the same thing. This lame forum software does not allow you to delete your own messages.
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jkeenan7
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/30 11:44:36 (permalink)
Slow cyclist here.  
Different bodies...different results for sure.   If I recline a lot I lost power going up hill.   I have more power the more upright I am.  I'm pretty sure I'd be faster on an LWB bike (have ridden a friends) but don't like the LWB for a bunch of reasons.
 
So has anyone done any wattage tests in different body prone positions?  

'16 Carbon Basso GS
'06 Bike Friday NWT
'99 VRexAchetta (Stolen and Born Again)
'08 Bike Friday Tandem
'13  Mukluk3 
SOLD:'05 Aero Basso '06 Ti Aero '05 Corsa '11 29er MTB  Bike Friday SAT R DAY  '07 Giro 20 '03 Strada
 
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thecanoe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/31 08:50:05 (permalink)
jkeenan7
Slow cyclist here.  
Different bodies...different results for sure.   If I recline a lot I lost power going up hill.   I have more power the more upright I am.  I'm pretty sure I'd be faster on an LWB bike (have ridden a friends) but don't like the LWB for a bunch of reasons.
 
So has anyone done any wattage tests in different body prone positions?  


Joe,
I'm with you. I never liked an extreme laid back position. For a while there were posts that told all the benefits of steep recline. I like my recurve seat and original bars. At 68, I don't adapt to new things easily. Keep it comfortable.

Larry

Ti Aero
Surly Moonlander fat bike
Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon 29er
Bassyak (for stripers and blues)
#91
jblye
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2016/12/31 19:06:26 (permalink)
I have owned 2 Carbon Aeros ( a 1.0 and a 2.0 ).    The speed was great, but I
always felt a bit ill at ease when riding with the seat in a severely reclined 
position (say 20 degrees), and stopping and starting could sometimes be a
hassle.  On those rare occasions when it became necessary to get off the
pavement onto a dirt surface, it became even trickier when "lying down".
So, I switched back to my LWB bikes ( fully faired ER Gold Rush and fully faired
ER titanium Javelin), along with a new faired Bella which I purchased in 2016.
The Ti Javelin is nearly as fast as the Carbon Aeros were; however, my favorite bike
of the lot is the Bella.  With performance upgrades installed by Jeremy at
Bacchetta (and the fairing), it is slightly faster than my Gold Rush (climbs
a bit faster than the GR).  
Anyhow....at the ripe old age of 74.....I now prefer a bike that is reasonably
fast and VERY user friendly.
Different strokes for different folks.
Have a Happy New Year !
Johnny
 
 

Recumbents owned since 1997:
Vision R-42 SWB
Vision R-82 Tandem
Wizwheelz Trike (Current)
ER Gold Rush LWB (Current )
Bacchetta Carbon Aero 1.0
Bacchetta Carbon Aero 2.0
ER Titanium Javelin LWB (Current)
Bacchetta Bella LWB (Current)
 
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tojesky
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/01/30 18:07:00 (permalink)
Crit Rider
...
My 31/8 bars are stiff enough that I can now feel what the rest of my front end is doing, even with fatter tires at lower pressures.  



I need to get longer bars but not sure what you mean when referring to 31/8 bars.  I assume it has to do with sizing but when asking Mark Powers for a replacement bar I need to understand that.
 
Also, the length of the straight section versus the angled-down section are of importance as well.
 
If there is a link that discusses this, please post it.
 
I have looked at Bacchetta's handlebar sizing and using their guide, I have 300mm bars.  The optional 330mm bars would provide some help but I'm thinking I need more than they offer.
 
Thanks,
 
Tim

UMCA member
2013 CA2.0 - 700c
2006 Corsa  (Sold July, 2013)
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Wannabe
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/01/30 21:05:22 (permalink)
ARE WE STILL ABLE TO MAKE POSTS HERE????
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thosemeggisons
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/01/31 07:43:55 (permalink)
It's a shame about our forum.
It's like riding thru a "ghost town".
 

capecodsmoker
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bentcyclist
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/01/31 15:31:09 (permalink)
I think all the regulars are still around. It's just a matter of a few folks getting the discussions going again.
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Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/02/06 13:13:54 (permalink)
Dan
When you all lower your bars by 3 or 4 inches, don't you have low speed turning problems due to the bars being lower than your thighs?
Dan



This kind of bar/stem combo is for folks who are reclined a lot already (0-25 degrees). I think most in that group already have their hands next to their thighs. Also, when you use a shorter stem and lot of recline, you have to angle your bars down quite a bit to keep your hands in line with your shoulders. You also run a grip section that is a little shorter with these bars. In the end, you may drop the bars at the stem down by a few inches, but your hands will not be dropping as much, if any, depending on your old set up. The bars will always go over your shins, and you want the top of you hand grip to ba about as high as the top of your shoulders.
 
Make sense? Pics might help huh?
 
Low speed tight turning usually involves unclipping from a pedal and dropping a leg. For those of us that spend less than 0.1% of our riding time doing this, and are more interested in speed/comfort/visibility, its not such a concern. 
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/02/06 13:37:38 (permalink)
tojesky I need to get longer bars but not sure what you mean when referring to 31/8 bars...  
...Also, the length of the straight section versus the angled-down section are of importance as well....
...I have looked at Bacchetta's handlebar sizing and using their guide, I have 300mm bars.  The optional 330mm bars would provide some help but I'm thinking I need more than they offer.

 
Oooops, 31.8mm!! This is the bar diameter at the stem, all the way back to the grip zone. 
 
Here are the specs I sent Mark for my last set. Its his form with my numbers in bold:
 

        Handlebar wall thickness (065" recommended for .875" OD  HB's) 1 1/4", with 7/8 grip zones.                        
        Outside of HB width at end of horizontal (~18.5", narrow spec Aero)  19"   
        Outside of HB width just after aft bend (~17.5", narrow spec Aero)   16.5" 
        Front center of HB's to center of grip zone bend (horizontal HB reach) 13.5" 
        Grip zone angle (40 degrees Bacchetta stock) 40 degrees
        Grip zone length, end of grip zone to center of bend 6"
        Grip zone boring requirement and length (if bar ends are used) reamed for Sram/Shimano bar ends
 
  • Notes 1 1/4" = 31.8mm
  • "Aero" refers to stock bacchetta bars. 
  • These are stiffer bars, not so easy to bend as stock, so get your width dialed before you order. 
  • I made mine narrow in front to fit in the back of my car with the parcel panel installed. If you want more of a V bar than a U, just make sure you calf clearance. 
  • I think Bacchetta measures bars from the front center to the end of the bars along the bar. So my bars would be 13.5" + 6" = 18.5", or about 470mm. That is way more than 300 or 330mm. I think their longer bars used a longer grip as well, maybe thinking that the more you recline the more you need to drop your hands as well. You can make one or 2 bars and let folks cut to length that way. 
  • I actually ordered 7" grips and wound up cutting to 6", but then I had to ream my bars myself to get the shifters all the way in. The bit Mark recommended was cheap and worked great. 
I should really make all this into a how-to and put on my blog, with pics. 
 
#98
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/02/06 14:02:28 (permalink)
jkeenan7If I recline a lot I lost power going up hill.   I have more power the more upright I am.  
So has anyone done any wattage tests in different body prone positions?  

 
Yes, myself and several others (some clients, some not) have. Its all about adaptation, cadence, and getting leg extension dialed in. At aerobic power levels you can make the same power over a wide range of seat angles, but you will be most aero at the most reclined one. The returns do become less once your knees go higher then your shoulder tops, but they are still there. 
 
More reclined positions are not good for high foot force pedalling. You need to have enough gears to climb your hills at at least 70rpm. I think a lot of folks might not yet have unlearned the out of the saddle 40 rpm climbing style they got away with on uprights. 
 
Start with balanced quadriceps and hamstrings, (both in strength and flexibility) and as you recline, psoas and sartorius will develope more. 
 
Also be careful about feeling more powerful, versus actually making more power. Lots of folks feel more powerful at lower cadences: more time to fire the quads, more foot force, less skill involved. They feel less powerful at 20rpm more, because the foot force drops and its more awkward at first. However, the powermeter doesn't lie. Even I can be out on a 3h tempo ride and drop to 80rpm in a headwind. I feel powerful, but if I shift down a gear and go to 92rpm, I am making 20W more!! With less perceived effort!! Feeling lies. Powermeters, not to much. 
 
Hoping for a warm spell for you!! 
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tojesky
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2017/02/06 17:07:23 (permalink)
Crit Rider
...
 
Oooops, 31.8mm!! This is the bar diameter at the stem, all the way back to the grip zone. 
 
...

I thought that but wasn't sure; hence my question.
 
Thanks for the info.

UMCA member
2013 CA2.0 - 700c
2006 Corsa  (Sold July, 2013)
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