Helpful ReplyHot!Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars.

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bentcyclist
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. 2013/11/03 05:40:20 (permalink)
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post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:32:04
#21
Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/11 20:21:47 (permalink)
For others like bentcyclist using the newest stock B pipe riser and conventional stem......
 
Assuming 170mm cranks or shorter, I recommend 150mm for a M frame, and 185mm for a L.
If you can find a 150mm stem like he did with a 1 1/4" clamp diameter for the pipe, great! Not easy to find.
If you can't or have a L frame, here is a list of custom stem fabricators:
 
http://velonews.competitor.com/2002/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-19_2174
 
Some of them might even be talked into doing a stem that eliminates the pipe altogether, clamping straight to the steerer 1 1/8" steerer tube! That might also allow the elimination of the BFT, and the use of a stem cap and a bolt and a expander nut in the steerer. One reason I stayed with the previous B arangement: the 2 piece stem/riser, was that I can always angle a compute display on the curve of the stem so its easy to read. That would involve some shimming on the pipe. With a custom stem that replaces the pipe, the whole lenght of the stem might be angled well for displays, and you can use this too: 
 
http://www.paulcomp.com/stemcaplightmount.html
 
The stem would look something like this:
 
http://www.wheelbuilder.com/images/G/Challenge_Seiran_SL_recumbent2.jpg
 
Not very adjustable, so you need to be set with your position.
 
If you want adjustability, both in angle and length, do a Terracycle Glideflex http://t-cycle.com/handlebars-stems-steering-c-8/glideflex-stem-p-98.html  with a straight stem from Rans. Slot the stem and use a Bacchetta riser clamp. I used this set up on a baron for a while, and set a few other rides with it. I think you can use the top load or CF stem from Rans. 
 
Regardless of stem, I definitely recommend Mark Power (poweroncycling.com) oversize bars. Although adding extensions to B bars is economical, the flexibility will not enhance your sense of control. 
post edited by Crit Rider - 2014/01/11 20:26:27
#22
bentcyclist
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. 2014/01/21 12:47:27 (permalink)
,,,
post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:32:23
#23
timturner
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/21 22:45:08 (permalink)
I feel like you'd be better off flipping the stem.  it'd be lower, so you'd have less torque on the fork, better visibility (maybe), and better aero.
oh, and less weight cuz you could cut off 10g worth of riser. :-)

T

Team Bacchetta

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bentcyclist
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. 2014/01/22 02:14:24 (permalink)
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post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:32:51
#25
timturner
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/22 08:33:03 (permalink)
I mean the stem... so it starts lower but ends up in the same place. 
like this:
 


Team Bacchetta

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bentcyclist
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. 2014/01/22 14:02:26 (permalink)
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post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:36:50
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Brent
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/26 08:23:58 (permalink)
bentcyclist
Ah sorry, I read bars instead of stem. I'll fine tune the position once I get the rest of the bent built up over the next week. I think pointing it down gives a lower bar height, but that might end up being too low, so might flip it around. Agree with your point.

 
I also lowered my bars and extended them back another 3 inches or so on my CA2.   It made a huge difference in my line of sight.  I'm using a 17 degree stem.  In addition to reducing the riser length for the same bar height, I think it simply looks better angled up.  I may eventually go with a longer stem, but this one works well and allows me to use my original bars.  If I go lower on the riser, I'll definitely need to have some custom bars made with less of angle to the grip.
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/115529283@N05/12154195254/
Brent
CA2
CorsaSS
Corsa (steel)
Giro20
 
#28
jtanner
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/26 12:01:12 (permalink)
Ref: seat angle & handle bar set up.
I am still riding my seat angle @ approx 2 degrees . This angle keeps pressure off hips and sacrum(base of spine) and allows for comfort and longer ride times with no sciatic nerve issues . With this seat angle I was having blind spots with handle bar and stem.  I eventuall put the bars high enough so I could see under .
Kent Polk suggested I test the tiller steering that routs tube between the knees and has a smaller bar across the chest for controls ?  After install and 4 months of riding I am totally comfortabe with this concept and would recommend it to any bent rider that sit below 15 degrees for safety and true comfort with shoulders and hands. Visibiltiy is fantastic for safety and seeing the road . Control for tight turns is easy w leg moving outward with aggressive low speed maneuvering . I keep my knees tight in for aero and max power and stem does not interfere with this position . Really a great option for the ca-2 if you plan to ride ultra distance events (over 6 hrs).
I hope this helps for my low seat angle bacchetta friends ?
Race schedule for florida point series has me off the weekend of feb.15th . Hope to see you all flying around the track @6:00 a.m.
 
Sincerely ,  J.T. (Team Bacchetta)
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Brent
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/26 13:25:10 (permalink)
JT - got pics?  I'm really interested in seeing your config.  
 
At 2 degree recline, what's your head angle like?  Are you tucking your chin, or leaving your head back and looking low? I'm in the 10-15 degree ballpark, and it seems like bending the head forward would start getting constricting if I went much lower.  
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bentcyclist
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. 2014/01/26 13:40:18 (permalink)
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post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:37:24
#31
jtanner
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/27 16:59:51 (permalink)
Hey Brent,
Don't have any pic's but will get some @ Sebring in a couple weeks . Neck is fine with the K.P. super pvc head rest . This design does prop the head up very comfy . I have head rest contact @ lower occipital of cranium. This position lifts the weight of cranium off the spine for decompression effect . Lots of foam with black sock over head rest as a cover for  easy  wash .Plus wrap foam in plastic so rain & sweat don't saturate the foam . The horizontal bar @ top of tiller is very short and brings hands in front of lower chest . This factor does keep it very aero friendly and bar ends allow wrist to remain straight and relaxed .
 
Ride safe & fast .  J.T. (Team Bacchetta)
#32
BentAero1
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/27 20:17:57 (permalink)
bentcyclist
I finally upgraded to a new CA2.0 frame set and the first thing I did was increase the 330mm exta long reach bars by 50mm to offset use of a 150mm stem. This allowed me to drop the bar height by almost 3" versus use of the 90mm stock stem. My stem clamps onto the 1 1/8" portion of the upper riser section since I cant lower it any further without hitting my shin when my pedal stroke gets lazy.

I'm convinced that Carbon Aeros are meant to ride at a sub 20 degree seat recline and this handlebar/ stem set up is a must have for maximizing frontal view of the road and ride comfort. I've found the optimum recline angle for me is 17 degrees. I'm not a racer, but this angle provides perfect speed for my fast club rides. I'll disagree with JV on one point. My bars are stiffer than my stock bars without this modification, because I pound in a thin walled aluminum conduit inside the first junction of the bars with an inch exposed. A 2" copper tube sleeve then slides on for the 2" extension. Bar interference isn't a factor since the bar extension is close in horizontal offset distance to the stem length extension. This is a medium 700c frame with 170mm crank arms.

I'll show my full CA2.0 build in a couple weeks with a few other mods I've done, but this shows the bar set up for now.


DSCN0519[1] by bentcyclist, on Flickr



Really like your bar setup and think I'll copy it for my Ti-Aero. Probably would use a piece of 'connection' tubing to jamb/weld into the I.D. of the existing bars, then cut up another set of handlebar ends and weld them onto the connection stubs in order to have a seamless surface. That way, my bar I.D. (and O.D.) will stay the same and I won't have a problem mounting the bar-end shifters that I like.
 
Wondering if you guys can offer some advice/info on what I currently have. I bought this bike used, technically as a frame-set, but the seller gave me most of the required parts to make it rideable. But, I'm not sure of origin/maker of some of the parts.
Are these Volae bars?

In my very limited rides on the bike, they seem very narrow in width. They measure about
14 3/4" -or- 375mm inside the brake lever mounts.
 
The stem is 80mm and appears to be about a 6º rise. The riser is 10 1/2" -or- 267mm tall. I think I could make a big improvement by going to the long stem/short rise/extended handle setup.

 
Also, two seat questions; How/where are you measuring seat angle? And is this a POC/Swanson seat?

 
Thanks!
Gary
#33
Crit Rider
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/27 20:30:23 (permalink)
Seat angle measurement, zoom the pic here. 
http://www.recumbentblog.com/2005/page/2/
 
Yes that looks like a Swanson seat.
POC custom bars are very inexpensive, and will be stiffer. 
Your bars might be Volae.
 
http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=1133976365
 
I think my bars are about 18.5" wide. 
#34
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/27 20:33:47 (permalink)
...and some pics that show why seat angle it not the whole story here:
 
http://www.recumbentblog.com/2005/05/19/seat-angle-discussion/
 
In essence, size matters. 
 
Also, there are a lot of fast riders in the 0-15 degree range these days. Returns may diminish, but they are still there if you are looking for ultimate speed unfaired. 
 
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BentAero1
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/01/27 20:42:53 (permalink)
Maybe my bars are bent...? They don't appear so, but according to this http://www.hostelshoppe.com/handlebar_width12-2.pdf they're either bent or 'different'.
 
Mine are 38mm @ 'D', but ony 42mm @ 'E'.
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bentcyclist
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. 2014/01/28 06:30:02 (permalink)
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post edited by bentcyclist - 2014/03/04 14:38:04
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BentAero1
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/02/21 15:56:52 (permalink)
OK, I've welded on my bar extensions and have my longer stem installed. Now I'm ready to cut off the excess riser that I no longer need.
 
Anyone know how to get the press-in thread device (for the top cap) out of the riser so I can relocate it after cutting?
 

#38
steamer
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/02/21 16:00:53 (permalink)
it is very hard to t remove star nuts without damaging them.
 
you either  1 - pound it in more and cut above the star nut.  2 - cut off the steerer with the star nut inside it and buy a new one.  they only cost 5 bucks.

-Tom
'08 Giro 26
Musashi
Metabikes Metaphrastic
 
http://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com/
#39
BentAero1
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Re:Better road vision, & fit, & control: why you want a longer lower stem & custom bars. 2014/02/21 17:01:41 (permalink)
Since it's only in there .600", I'll be cutting below it. Then I'll pound it out of the cutoff piece.
 
Is the split ring that's above the star nut just a glorified washer to keep the it 'square' in the tube?
post edited by BentAero1 - 2014/02/21 17:03:57
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