Hot!Anyone not like Q-Rings?

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thecanoe
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2010/11/23 07:36:04 (permalink)

Anyone not like Q-Rings?

I've been riding bents since 1999 and my Aero since 2003. I've always used standard round rings and am hesitant to believe all the hype about Q-Rings. That said, I haven't heard anything negative about them. As my knees age, I am thinking about Q-rings again.
Anyone NOT LIKE Q-RINGS? Anyone try them and then go back to ROUND?

Larry

Ti Aero
Surly Moonlander fat bike
Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon 29er
Bassyak (for stripers and blues)
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    bent1
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 09:28:31 (permalink)
    Canoe,

    I'm sure you will get lots of opinions with an open end question like that.  Ha. 

    I am a big believer personally.  I have Q rings on everything that I own.

    The secret, in my opinion, is to have them set up/ phased perfectly.  I am amazed, when casually looking at peoples bikes, how many sets that I see that are improperly installed.

    It seems that, frequently, even respected shops get it wrong.

    Joe


    #2
    gregraven
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 10:35:25 (permalink)
    I can understand the bad set-ups: The instructions are incomprehensible.
    #3
    MakM
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 12:11:36 (permalink)
    I like my Q rings. Like free power. There is one problem. Up shifting is not as smooth as w/ round rings. After 1200+ miles, I am still working out a "smooth" shift.
    Mark

    CA 2
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    #4
    ronsmithjunior
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 13:27:35 (permalink)
    I like Q-Rings. They work well for how I pedal. However, I have had to go back to round rings three times to solve knee problems. After recovering I have always gone back.

    The adjustment is critical. For me they are either right or absolutely wrong. Once you get them dialed in, take a picture just in case you have take them off for some reason.

    Agreed, the instructions are incomprehensible.

    And agreed, the shifting isn't nearly as good as with round rings.

    #5
    timturner
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 17:59:41 (permalink)
    shifting the front on any crankset isn't really that great. Q rings make it significantly worse.
    other than that, they're fine. maybe a bit overpriced.
    I bought a set cuz I was having serious knee pain. still had it happen with the Qrings. eventually I got strong enough to want a 53t instead of the 44t Qring, so I switched back.
    I think time and cross training on an upright has done more for my knees than the qrings.

    T
    #6
    thecanoe
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 18:10:09 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bent1

    Canoe,

    I'm sure you will get lots of opinions with an open end question like that.  Ha. 

    I am a big believer personally.  I have Q rings on everything that I own.

    The secret, in my opinion, is to have them set up/ phased perfectly.  I am amazed, when casually looking at peoples bikes, how many sets that I see that are improperly installed.

    It seems that, frequently, even respected shops get it wrong.

    Joe


    So, how about posting a picture of how you indexed them and maybe that would be a good starting point.
    Am I wrong?

    Larry

    Ti Aero
    Surly Moonlander fat bike
    Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon 29er
    Bassyak (for stripers and blues)
    #7
    noahvale
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 18:22:42 (permalink)
    This picture is buried somewhere deeper on this forum.
    That's how I set mine up. Been many thousands of miles and I still like them.
    I just stop pedaling long enough to shift rings in the front. No big deal.




    #8
    bent1
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 18:47:55 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: noahvale

    This picture is buried somewhere deeper on this forum.
    That's how I set mine up. Been many thousands of miles and I still like them.
    I just stop pedaling long enough to shift rings in the front. No big deal.







    With the crank not positioned in the dead spot it is impossible for me to tell if I agree with this set up or not.

    Joe
    #9
    bent1
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 18:54:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thecanoe


    ORIGINAL: bent1

    Canoe,

    I'm sure you will get lots of opinions with an open end question like that.  Ha. 

    I am a big believer personally.  I have Q rings on everything that I own.

    The secret, in my opinion, is to have them set up/ phased perfectly.  I am amazed, when casually looking at peoples bikes, how many sets that I see that are improperly installed.

    It seems that, frequently, even respected shops get it wrong.

    Joe


    So, how about posting a picture of how you indexed them and maybe that would be a good starting point.
    Am I wrong?


    Canoe,

    Please do NOT go the photo route.  Everyone's dead spot is a little different.  It varies bike to bike, and person to person. 

    If you "carefully" follow those incomprehensible instructions that have been mentioned a couple of times, it will work out correctly.  You must use the recumbent specific instructions.  Ignore everything else.

    In my opinion, the guys who say, " I just look at them, land put them on" or the ones who go from someone else's photo are  very likely to get it wrong.

    Joe
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    steamer
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 19:05:23 (permalink)
    One sentance: With the right side crank in the dead spot, align the chainring so that the hole with the three dots corresponds to the first tooth to engage the power side chain (just forward of the f. derailleur).

    Edit: dunno why Rotor can't sum it up. After reading three(!) pages of gobbledygook, that's pretty much all it comes down to.
    post edited by steamer - 2010/11/23 19:11:31

    -Tom
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    Musashi
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    #11
    thecanoe
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 19:12:26 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: steamer

    One sentance: With the right side crank in the dead spot, align the chainring so that the hole with the three dots corresponds to the first tooth to engage the power side chain (just forward of the f. derailleur).

    Edit: dunno why Rotor can't sum it up. After reading three(!) pages of gobbledygook, that's pretty much all it comes down to.

    Okay, I'll bite.
    Where's the dead spot?

    Larry

    Ti Aero
    Surly Moonlander fat bike
    Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon 29er
    Bassyak (for stripers and blues)
    #12
    steamer
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 19:17:42 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: thecanoe


    ORIGINAL: steamer

    One sentance: With the right side crank in the dead spot, align the chainring so that the hole with the three dots corresponds to the first tooth to engage the power side chain (just forward of the f. derailleur).

    Edit: dunno why Rotor can't sum it up. After reading three(!) pages of gobbledygook, that's pretty much all it comes down to.

    Okay, I'll bite.
    Where's the dead spot?


    Get rolling and clip in. Finish a pedal stroke by pushing your right leg forward (just think about pushing forward; intentionally don't try to use any other muscles,like your hamstrings). The position the right side crank ends up in is the dead spot. Unclip your left leg and come to a stop while someone takes a pic of your crank in the dead spot position.

    -Tom
    '08 Giro 26
    Musashi
    Metabikes Metaphrastic
     
    http://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com/
    #13
    gregraven
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 20:24:10 (permalink)
    If I understand everything I know about it, this is the way Bent Up Cycles set up my Q Rings.
    #14
    ghefty
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 22:14:56 (permalink)
    Can I hijack the thread for a side question: in the pic attached it looks like there are a pair of lights above and below the cranks. I would be very interested in knowing what lights they are, how they are attached and how well they work.
    Thanks,
    George
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    wahoodoggydoo
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/23 22:39:15 (permalink)
    There's no hype to Qrings. When you do the math, there is a 5% mechanical advantage. It can be difficult to perceive a 5% change, thus the perception of hype. But the numbers don't lie.

    If a rider doesn't push close to his/her HR limit, the 5% may go unnoticed. Then the rider may have the impression that Qrings have no benefit. If you ride hard, have knee problems, or want to help prevent future knee problems, get Qrings.
    #16
    25hz
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/24 11:03:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thecanoe


    ORIGINAL: bent1

    Canoe,

    I'm sure you will get lots of opinions with an open end question like that.  Ha. 

    I am a big believer personally.  I have Q rings on everything that I own.

    The secret, in my opinion, is to have them set up/ phased perfectly.  I am amazed, when casually looking at peoples bikes, how many sets that I see that are improperly installed.

    It seems that, frequently, even respected shops get it wrong.

    Joe


    So, how about posting a picture of how you indexed them and maybe that would be a good starting point.
    Am I wrong?

     
    The set up vaires from bike design to bike design.  To line it up, is an easy process.
     
    1)  Sit on the bike, clipped in, and put your feet in the position like you are going to try to set a world record for the 100m sprint.  For people that have a good feel for their bodies, most will instinctively put their foot in the position they produce the most power.
    2)  Arrange the oval ring, so the power side of the chain is coming off the section of the chainring that is the largest diameter.
     
    That's it.
     
    On a DF, alignment is easy because the chainline angles are always the same in relation to the pedal position.  That isn't the case with recumbents.
     
    You can tweak it a bit by rotating the chainring counter clockwise so when you are coming into your power spot with your foot, the chain is just approaching the largest diameter instead of already being on it.  If you want to ease your knees a little more, you can retard the chainring a little more.  Too much messing with the ring's rotation, and you start to negate the effect of the ovality.
    #17
    BirdieMama
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/24 11:34:38 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wahoodoggydoo

    There's no hype to Qrings. When you do the math, there is a 5% mechanical advantage. It can be difficult to perceive a 5% change, thus the perception of hype. But the numbers don't lie.

    If a rider doesn't push close to his/her HR limit, the 5% may go unnoticed. Then the rider may have the impression that Qrings have no benefit. If you ride hard, have knee problems, or want to help prevent future knee problems, get Qrings.

     
    I'm with DoggyDoo (now THAT'S a scary statement!!!) and a number of others on this.  I think our own Lord of the Drongos, Rich Pinto, had said he's got Q-Rings or Rotor Cranks on ALL of his bikes.  Rich?
     
    I have a left knee that was injured in a fall on ice when dinosaurs still walked the earth.  It screams at me periodically.  It screams when I ride the Aero Basso, which still has (why?!!!?) round rings on it.  It never screams on the other two bikes, both of which have Q-Rings.  All 3 are set up identically, other than Q-Rings. 
     
    Knowing full-well that we are all different I'm just going to post a close-up of the picture previously posted - I snagged mine "way back when" and saved it as "Ron Smith's Q-Ring set up".  I used this photo to set up my two Q-Ring equipped bikes and, for me, it was the perfect set up.  This is an enlarged and cropped version I just whipped up to more clearly show the "timing" marks on the rings (top right) in relation to the position of the crank arm.  
     
    YMMV... or YQRSMV (Your Q-Ring Set-up...)
     
    Miz Tweety "whipping up Q-Ring photos instead of garlic mashed potatoes... )

     
     

    "It's a beautiful day for a ride;
    you know you wanna come along!
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    #18
    ronsmithjunior
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/24 20:48:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ghefty

    Can I hijack the thread for a side question: in the pic attached it looks like there are a pair of lights above and below the cranks. I would be very interested in knowing what lights they are, how they are attached and how well they work.
    Thanks,
    George


    I'll answer seeing how it is my bike. :-) The lights are 2xAA flashlights:

    http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Flashlight-battery-charger-batteries/dp/B002OETFF6

    The mounts are TwoFish Lockblocks:

    http://www.twofish.biz/bike.html

    You can see this combination better here:

    http://www.ruscelli.com/biking_twofish.htm

    The mount is a Haluzak part I bought from Zach Kaplan. It is designed to attached to the top of the derailleur post. You can see it on this bike:

    http://sites.google.com/site/brynn619/

    I attached it to the front of the bike by drilling into the triangular plate just below the bottom bracket and inserting a threaded insert (forget what you call them). The bracket was firmly attached to the bike. However, the lights tended to bounce around a bit. With this bracket you can run any light you want. Good setup.
    #19
    projo
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    RE: Anyone not like Q-Rings? 2010/11/25 20:23:00 (permalink)
    I love Q-Rings. I have them on two bikes and plan on putting at least one on my new CA. However, the one I already have is a 53T and I don't think the derailleur  will handle all three rings. I may have to order a smaller one or go with two rings total. Don't know. A new derailleur? 50T, 52T? Still deciding.

    I don't use them for any increase in the power stroke. I use them for their smoothness and how they feel to my knees. They are particularly good for all-day rides and I would use them even if they had no speed benefit.

    (Oh, what size big Q do you folks use on the CA, or other similar bike?)

    Gary
    2011 miles: 1431 as of 22 March
    #20
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